PRICE PER FIXTURE

Post by Blackbeard
Guys, I've asked you this question before and I get all sorts of
non-answers.
In my area, the standard rate per fixture (assume track home - not
custom home) is $450 per fixture. And for a simple breakdown....
House plumbed using pex supply lines, std. "builders" (cheap)
fixtures, and foamcore pipe.
Toilet
Lavatory
Fiberglass Tub/Shower
Toilet
Lavatory
Fiberglass Tub/Shower
Kitchen Sink (no dishwasher)
Washer Box
Water Heater
Sewer/Water Line
Total Fixtures = 10 x $450 = $4500 (ie, shit money...not worth doing
the work)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now is that so fucking difficult? These prices are what to expect for
residential construction in North Carolina (Greensboro, High Point,
Winston-Salem area).
What I want to know are average prices in other areas of the country.
Can you guys give me a fucking straight answer without being so
god-damned obtuse.

Geezus....Did you have to ask so NICELY? :>)

First of all, I don't do tract houses, and don't touch PEX, and I don't
touch foamcore. That said however, I do a few custom homes every now and
then. I am in Texas so the illegals do most of the houses and all the tract
houses. But here's a breakdown for a typical house I would do and the
minimum specifications. If I touch it the piping has to be type "M" copper
(minimum) and schedule 40 PVC wastes and vents. We only use lead stubs and
lead flashings. Period. The stainless braided flexible supplies, chrome Moen
brass and Crane chinaware:

Master WC - 1
Lavatories - 2 (4550)
Garden tub - 1 (by others)
Shower - 1 (by others)

Guest #1 WC - 1
Lavatory - 1 (4550)
Tub & shower - 1 (steel)

Powder WC - 1
Ped lavatory - 1 (4550) +$200

Kitchen sink - 1 +$400 (Americast W/Delta waterfall) <or equal>

50 Gallon gas water heater - 1

Washer - 1

Gas openings - Up to 7 @ $ 125 each = $ 875

Exterior utilities (up to 60' waste & water) = $ 800

Downdraft = + $ 200

13 Total fixtures @ $ 500 = 6,500
Adds (+'s) & extra's = $ 1,600
Gas system = $ 875
Project Total = $ 8,975

I charge extra for fiberglass tubs ($300)
I charge extra for cast iron tubs ($300)
Of course I charge extra for fixtures that exceed the price of the quoted
fixtures on a "list to list" basis. Utilities that exceed the quote are $ 12
per foot for sanitary up to 6' in depth and $6 per foot for water service.
No taps or tap fees.

I may have overlooked something in my hurried response to your so "politely"
asked question. If you have any more, ask away.
Just try not to hurt my sensitive feelings.....:>)

Bob Wheatley

Blackbeard

2005-09-05 22:45:57 UTC

Thanks Bob,
I'm just trying to get some bearing on how pricing changes from one
area to the next. If my question seems impolite, I apologize for that.
I've asked these goofy bastards this exact same question again and
again. and typically it turns into some way-off-the-fucking-mark
thread that never answers the original question. So I appreciate your
feedbac.

A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:19:19 -0500, "Bob Wheatley"

Geezus....Did you have to ask so NICELY? :>)
First of all, I don't do tract houses, and don't touch PEX, and I don't
touch foamcore. That said however, I do a few custom homes every now and
then. I am in Texas so the illegals do most of the houses and all the tract
houses. But here's a breakdown for a typical house I would do and the
minimum specifications. If I touch it the piping has to be type "M" copper
(minimum) and schedule 40 PVC wastes and vents. We only use lead stubs and
lead flashings. Period. The stainless braided flexible supplies, chrome Moen
Master WC - 1
Lavatories - 2 (4550)
Garden tub - 1 (by others)
Shower - 1 (by others)
Guest #1 WC - 1
Lavatory - 1 (4550)
Tub & shower - 1 (steel)
Powder WC - 1
Ped lavatory - 1 (4550) +$200
Kitchen sink - 1 +$400 (Americast W/Delta waterfall) <or equal>
50 Gallon gas water heater - 1
Washer - 1
Exterior utilities (up to 60' waste & water) = $ 800
Downdraft = + $ 200
Adds (+'s) & extra's = $ 1,600
Gas system = $ 875
Project Total = $ 8,975
I charge extra for fiberglass tubs ($300)
I charge extra for cast iron tubs ($300)
Of course I charge extra for fixtures that exceed the price of the quoted
fixtures on a "list to list" basis. Utilities that exceed the quote are $ 12
per foot for sanitary up to 6' in depth and $6 per foot for water service.
No taps or tap fees.
I may have overlooked something in my hurried response to your so "politely"
asked question. If you have any more, ask away.
Just try not to hurt my sensitive feelings.....:>)
Bob Wheatley

Bob Wheatley

2005-09-06 15:43:22 UTC

Post by Blackbeard
Thanks Bob,
I'm just trying to get some bearing on how pricing changes from one
area to the next. If my question seems impolite, I apologize for that.
I've asked these goofy bastards this exact same question again and
again. and typically it turns into some way-off-the-fucking-mark
thread that never answers the original question. So I appreciate your
feedbac.

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

They would need to for their cost of living up there. What's a 1 bedroom
apartment up there? $2000 a month?
My apprentices here run between $12-$15 per hour, and my Journeymen here run
between $21-$25 per hour. Although I do pay more than most. I know some
plumbers that are working for what I pay my helpers.

Bob Wheatley

Mark Monson

2005-09-06 17:26:09 UTC

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

The southern Appalachians region is one of the lowest paying in the US
for all the construction trades.

Typically, jobs are bid at $350 per fixture NOT including the fixture.
We throw in a couple frost proof cocks and the ice maker box. Electric
water heater is material only. Most everything is septic tank with both
individual wells and utility water. Normal piping distance septic
and supply is counted as a fixture each. We use PEX (not manifold) and
foam core PVC.

I know this sounds dirt cheap but there are guys charging a good bit
less. They rely on come-and-go helpers earning 8 bucks an hour.

MM

Blackbeard

2005-09-07 00:06:37 UTC

Mark,
One big concern that I have had in regards to the pricing in my area
(and it sounds like yours too) back-sliding on pricing is that to
combat those price decreases while simultaneously taking the hit on
rising material (and fuel) costs, the profit margins are getting
smaller and smaller. As a result, plumbers in these low-pay areas are
forced to scale down the quality of materials they use. Inevitably,
the homeowner gets hosed. You can buy and install a $50
cheaper-than-dirt toilet and you can install $20 valves in the
bathrooms and kitchen as a means to balance the equation.

I personally do very few residential jobs these days because I have
fairly strict rules when it comes to my work. I won't use a $50 toilet
and I won't use the cheapest crap I can find. I also require a
sit-down meeting with both homeowner and contractor so we can cover
those issues face-to-face. I also have a 7-page "terms and conditions"
addendum to my contract to protect me against all the typical
bullshit. You ever had to take a wall apart because the contractor
frame you in? And then you send 2-hours rebuilding the wall? I don't
do that shit. I just tear out what I need to tear out and they can
damn well rebuild the shit on their dime. I'm not paid to be a framer.

Anyways - that's scary shit to hear that there are guys out there
doing this work for $350/fixture (and less). If I had my way, every
plumber in the country would agree $1000/fixture. not a dime less.

Any you know all those OSHA violations you see on your worksite.
Report their asses. You shouldn't have to work in unsafe conditions
because the contractor is too fucking cheap to do his job.

I've reached the point in my life that I *hate* contractors. They are
the scum of the earth. I've watched them cheat homeowners and cheat
subs for years and years. It's fucked up. More than once I've driven
past a job site and grabbed my cell and reported them for violations.
The subs...you guys are my people. I look out for the other subs. The
contractors...fuck 'em. I'll smile and play all nicety nice. But let
one of those fuckers step over the line with me and I make it a game
seeing how hard I can fuck him over. I've put three contractors out of
business in the last 18-months.

And if you have a hard time getting your money, I HIGHLY recommend
this little trick. Sue the homeowner at the same time you drag the
contractor into court. And then send your paperwork to the bank who is
financing the project. Every bank who has received paper from me
immediately cuts ALL funding towards the project until I get paid.
Works like a charm. You put them in a box where they can pay the
plumber...or the bank won't release funds. If the bank doesn't release
funds...they get sued by the owner. You create a little cache-22 and
you'll have 'em hopping. Inevitably, they cough up the cash. I give
'em 15-days to pay. After that, I charge them $50/day as my late fee.
Don't get mad. Get even.

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

The southern Appalachians region is one of the lowest paying in the US
for all the construction trades.
Typically, jobs are bid at $350 per fixture NOT including the fixture.
We throw in a couple frost proof cocks and the ice maker box. Electric
water heater is material only. Most everything is septic tank with both
individual wells and utility water. Normal piping distance septic
and supply is counted as a fixture each. We use PEX (not manifold) and
foam core PVC.
I know this sounds dirt cheap but there are guys charging a good bit
less. They rely on come-and-go helpers earning 8 bucks an hour.
MM

AldoNova

2005-09-15 02:12:06 UTC

Whaaaa, whhaaaaa, somebody call a whaambulance.

My god, dude. I'm guessing your 10 years past the time you should have left
the biz.

I "Hate" the contractor? Wow, you hate the person that gets you work. Umm,
here's a suggestion. Work for the ones that don't screw you. And, if they
all screw you, target your market elsewhere.

I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To listen
to people that install & use them. But you, you just slay me with your
un-happy assed poison. Give it up & retire. Watch TV and make money as you
mentioned earlier.

Un-freaking real.

Brian

Post by Blackbeard
Mark,
One big concern that I have had in regards to the pricing in my area
(and it sounds like yours too) back-sliding on pricing is that to
combat those price decreases while simultaneously taking the hit on
rising material (and fuel) costs, the profit margins are getting
smaller and smaller. As a result, plumbers in these low-pay areas are
forced to scale down the quality of materials they use. Inevitably,
the homeowner gets hosed. You can buy and install a $50
cheaper-than-dirt toilet and you can install $20 valves in the
bathrooms and kitchen as a means to balance the equation.
I personally do very few residential jobs these days because I have
fairly strict rules when it comes to my work. I won't use a $50 toilet
and I won't use the cheapest crap I can find. I also require a
sit-down meeting with both homeowner and contractor so we can cover
those issues face-to-face. I also have a 7-page "terms and conditions"
addendum to my contract to protect me against all the typical
bullshit. You ever had to take a wall apart because the contractor
frame you in? And then you send 2-hours rebuilding the wall? I don't
do that shit. I just tear out what I need to tear out and they can
damn well rebuild the shit on their dime. I'm not paid to be a framer.
Anyways - that's scary shit to hear that there are guys out there
doing this work for $350/fixture (and less). If I had my way, every
plumber in the country would agree $1000/fixture. not a dime less.
Any you know all those OSHA violations you see on your worksite.
Report their asses. You shouldn't have to work in unsafe conditions
because the contractor is too fucking cheap to do his job.
I've reached the point in my life that I *hate* contractors. They are
the scum of the earth. I've watched them cheat homeowners and cheat
subs for years and years. It's fucked up. More than once I've driven
past a job site and grabbed my cell and reported them for violations.
The subs...you guys are my people. I look out for the other subs. The
contractors...fuck 'em. I'll smile and play all nicety nice. But let
one of those fuckers step over the line with me and I make it a game
seeing how hard I can fuck him over. I've put three contractors out of
business in the last 18-months.
And if you have a hard time getting your money, I HIGHLY recommend
this little trick. Sue the homeowner at the same time you drag the
contractor into court. And then send your paperwork to the bank who is
financing the project. Every bank who has received paper from me
immediately cuts ALL funding towards the project until I get paid.
Works like a charm. You put them in a box where they can pay the
plumber...or the bank won't release funds. If the bank doesn't release
funds...they get sued by the owner. You create a little cache-22 and
you'll have 'em hopping. Inevitably, they cough up the cash. I give
'em 15-days to pay. After that, I charge them $50/day as my late fee.
Don't get mad. Get even.

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

The southern Appalachians region is one of the lowest paying in the US
for all the construction trades.
Typically, jobs are bid at $350 per fixture NOT including the fixture.
We throw in a couple frost proof cocks and the ice maker box. Electric
water heater is material only. Most everything is septic tank with both
individual wells and utility water. Normal piping distance septic
and supply is counted as a fixture each. We use PEX (not manifold) and
foam core PVC.
I know this sounds dirt cheap but there are guys charging a good bit
less. They rely on come-and-go helpers earning 8 bucks an hour.
MM

Blackbeard

2005-09-15 04:05:26 UTC

Well it's easy enough for you to run your mouth chief. But if you
aren't acutely aware that YES, contractors do cheat their subs and
cheat their homeowners on a regular basis (at least in my area of the
country), then you seem to be out-of-touch with the industry. In
non-union areas, this is a very big and very real problem. And it's
getting worse.

This trend of dishonest business practice is reducing the
profitability of a very honorable trade. As that profitability
falters, many of us have seen more people get out of the plumbing
trade then new guys getting into it. And whether you like it or not,
the industry needs people with tenure to stick around to help the
dwindling newcomers to learn this trade.

As for "working for the ones who don't screw me." For what it's worth,
I deliberately *try* to sign contracts with contractors who have a
reputation for screwing their subs. At this point in my life,
destroying contractors who are destroying my industry has become a fun
past-time for me. Why the hell should I watch TV when I can have so
much more fun destroying the businesses of those who deserves it? I
have the money and resources. I can't think of anything better for my
industry than destroying the people who give us all a bad name.

As for money, I have my hand in other pots and don't exactly *need* to
ever take on another job for the rest of my days. But regardless of
what I do and regardless of my 10-page "terms and conditions" and my
primadonna attitude towards the whole thing, the phone always rings.

Why? Because as much as I hate contractors, I understand that a new
home is a major point in the lives of the people who will live there.
From my perspective, when I see new homes go up, I personally see
mediocre poorly built shit from the ground all the way up. I see SHIT
being built with a 1/2-million dollar price tag. The contractors could
do much better. The contractors OWE those homeowners better than the
contractors are giving them.

And I see contractors who don't give a shit. And I see many many guys
on the job who don't give a shit. And maybe I'm old-fashioned and
outdated, but I *DO* give a shit. In fact, I won't plumb a house to a
standard less than what I would install in my own home. I tend to
exceed code in every department because, in my opinion, the *code* is
the "lowest standard allowable by law." We can all do a lot better
than installing the "lowest standards allowable by law."

Regardless of my opinion, that mediocre house is somebody elses'
American Dream. All I care about is my plumbing. The contractors and
sub-contractors may have forgotten their responsibility towards
building the best house they can build. So the house may be mediocre,
but the plumbing I install is bulletproof. I plumb a 2-bath home with
the same dignity and respect that I approach a 16-bath home. The less
affluent owner doesn't deserve less because he earns less than the
16-bath homeowner.

I have a responsibility to give them my very best work every time. I
have a responsibility towards preserving that American dream. I love
my work and I love my homeowners and I will protect their dreams.
That's what I care about.

As for contractors, they really just need to pay me in a timely
fashion and in the meantime, stay the fuck out of my way.

I'm not the guy who needs to "leave the biz." The guys who need to
"leave the biz" are the people who stopped caring or never cared in
the first place.

And for what it's worth, you are more than welcome to fuck yourself.
Who the fuck are you to presume to pass judgement on me. You wanna
judge me bitch. My work speaks volumes. Take a look at my work (any of
it) and then compare it to the best work you can find anywhere in the
world. I'll go nose to nose with any man on the planet. Little
bitch-ass mouthy fuck.

Post by AldoNova
Whaaaa, whhaaaaa, somebody call a whaambulance.
My god, dude. I'm guessing your 10 years past the time you should have left
the biz.
I "Hate" the contractor? Wow, you hate the person that gets you work. Umm,
here's a suggestion. Work for the ones that don't screw you. And, if they
all screw you, target your market elsewhere.
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To listen
to people that install & use them. But you, you just slay me with your
un-happy assed poison. Give it up & retire. Watch TV and make money as you
mentioned earlier.
Un-freaking real.
Brian

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

The southern Appalachians region is one of the lowest paying in the US
for all the construction trades.
Typically, jobs are bid at $350 per fixture NOT including the fixture.
We throw in a couple frost proof cocks and the ice maker box. Electric
water heater is material only. Most everything is septic tank with both
individual wells and utility water. Normal piping distance septic
and supply is counted as a fixture each. We use PEX (not manifold) and
foam core PVC.
I know this sounds dirt cheap but there are guys charging a good bit
less. They rely on come-and-go helpers earning 8 bucks an hour.
MM

Ned Flanders

2005-09-15 16:13:23 UTC

Post by AldoNova
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them.

wow this asshole is one to thank for horrible design from an installers
point of view, why?; because he dosen't know a fucking thing about plumbing
or the trades. who do you work for moron? i should call them up and tell
them they need to hire me to do your job the right way. I could do much
better than you I am sure thanks to my real life expirence.

thats right fantasy life fuck the contractor, fuck cement, and most of all
fuck the scumbag sheetrocker.

Post by AldoNova
Whaaaa, whhaaaaa, somebody call a whaambulance.
My god, dude. I'm guessing your 10 years past the time you should have
left the biz.
I "Hate" the contractor? Wow, you hate the person that gets you work. Umm,
here's a suggestion. Work for the ones that don't screw you. And, if they
all screw you, target your market elsewhere.
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them. But you, you just slay me with
your un-happy assed poison. Give it up & retire. Watch TV and make money
as you mentioned earlier.
Un-freaking real.
Brian

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

The southern Appalachians region is one of the lowest paying in the US
for all the construction trades.
Typically, jobs are bid at $350 per fixture NOT including the fixture.
We throw in a couple frost proof cocks and the ice maker box. Electric
water heater is material only. Most everything is septic tank with both
individual wells and utility water. Normal piping distance septic
and supply is counted as a fixture each. We use PEX (not manifold) and
foam core PVC.
I know this sounds dirt cheap but there are guys charging a good bit
less. They rely on come-and-go helpers earning 8 bucks an hour.
MM

PipeDown

2005-09-16 00:21:18 UTC

Waddaya want, he sounds like a sales guy whose main customers are
contractors. Of course he's bias and ready to defend his bread and butter.

Post by AldoNova
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them.

wow this asshole is one to thank for horrible design from an installers
point of view, why?; because he dosen't know a fucking thing about
plumbing or the trades. who do you work for moron? i should call them up
and tell them they need to hire me to do your job the right way. I could
do much better than you I am sure thanks to my real life expirence.
thats right fantasy life fuck the contractor, fuck cement, and most of all
fuck the scumbag sheetrocker.

Post by AldoNova
Whaaaa, whhaaaaa, somebody call a whaambulance.
My god, dude. I'm guessing your 10 years past the time you should have
left the biz.
I "Hate" the contractor? Wow, you hate the person that gets you work.
Umm, here's a suggestion. Work for the ones that don't screw you. And, if
they all screw you, target your market elsewhere.
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them. But you, you just slay me with
your un-happy assed poison. Give it up & retire. Watch TV and make money
as you mentioned earlier.
Un-freaking real.
Brian

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

The southern Appalachians region is one of the lowest paying in the US
for all the construction trades.
Typically, jobs are bid at $350 per fixture NOT including the fixture.
We throw in a couple frost proof cocks and the ice maker box. Electric
water heater is material only. Most everything is septic tank with both
individual wells and utility water. Normal piping distance septic
and supply is counted as a fixture each. We use PEX (not manifold) and
foam core PVC.
I know this sounds dirt cheap but there are guys charging a good bit
less. They rely on come-and-go helpers earning 8 bucks an hour.
MM

AldoNova

2005-09-30 03:38:02 UTC

My God would I love to take the time to open a can a whoop-ass on you
babies. But your ears grew shut so long ago it would merely be a long rant
with myself. (just as most of your posts are).

I have so much freaking data / field notes about what types of f-ups
plumbers do to fixtures during install... but of course none of you have
ever fucked up on the job. It's everyone else that screws it all up.

btw, not sales. Engineer. And you can't imagine how much less a fixture
would cost if a plumber didn't have two left hands made of solid lead who
think if snug is good tight as hell is better and what do I need with the
f-ing included washers / fittings when the spare shit I got in the bottom of
my toolbox will do just fine.

Ya ever wonder why the expensive fixtures weigh 10 lbs. and have very course
threads? It ain't 'cuz it needs it for years of freaking use. It's heavy
handed installers that think wrenching equals greatness and who can't screw
any thread finer than a -12 without stripping the hell out of it. Nice. You
have no, absolutely no idea, of the innovation that would be possible if you
and the members of your industry could adapt to change. I've seen this going
on for 22 years now and the amount of change that your kind has stifled
could fill volumes of binders.

It is unbelievable how many innovative fixture designs are tossed out the
fucking window due to the "knowledgeable and experienced plumbers" (read
that as closed minded and old school assholes who bad mouth anything that's
different from what they've been installing for 30 years). I've seen a
design in which installation of a kitchen faucet was cut 84%. And what did
the plumbers who did the installs have to say? "Fuck this, my cost per
fixture would be almost nothin'". F-you.

Do you ever read your own posts after your hangovers have passed? Whhaaaa
the other subs. Whaaa everyone but my industry. There's nothing I've ever
done incorrectly and there's no new idea worth a shit. Only I have the
answer and if I had my way all would be perfect. Whatever, you tired old
bastards.

Post by PipeDown
Waddaya want, he sounds like a sales guy whose main customers are
contractors. Of course he's bias and ready to defend his bread and butter.

Post by AldoNova
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them.

wow this asshole is one to thank for horrible design from an installers
point of view, why?; because he dosen't know a fucking thing about
plumbing or the trades. who do you work for moron? i should call them up
and tell them they need to hire me to do your job the right way. I could
do much better than you I am sure thanks to my real life expirence.
thats right fantasy life fuck the contractor, fuck cement, and most of
all fuck the scumbag sheetrocker.

Post by AldoNova
Whaaaa, whhaaaaa, somebody call a whaambulance.
My god, dude. I'm guessing your 10 years past the time you should have
left the biz.
I "Hate" the contractor? Wow, you hate the person that gets you work.
Umm, here's a suggestion. Work for the ones that don't screw you. And,
if they all screw you, target your market elsewhere.
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them. But you, you just slay me with
your un-happy assed poison. Give it up & retire. Watch TV and make money
as you mentioned earlier.
Un-freaking real.
Brian

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

The southern Appalachians region is one of the lowest paying in the US
for all the construction trades.
Typically, jobs are bid at $350 per fixture NOT including the fixture.
We throw in a couple frost proof cocks and the ice maker box. Electric
water heater is material only. Most everything is septic tank with both
individual wells and utility water. Normal piping distance septic
and supply is counted as a fixture each. We use PEX (not manifold) and
foam core PVC.
I know this sounds dirt cheap but there are guys charging a good bit
less. They rely on come-and-go helpers earning 8 bucks an hour.
MM

Bob Wheatley

2005-09-30 06:46:38 UTC

Post by AldoNova
My God would I love to take the time to open a can a whoop-ass on you
babies. But your ears grew shut so long ago it would merely be a long rant
with myself. (just as most of your posts are).
I have so much freaking data / field notes about what types of f-ups
plumbers do to fixtures during install... but of course none of you have
ever fucked up on the job. It's everyone else that screws it all up.
btw, not sales. Engineer. And you can't imagine how much less a fixture
would cost if a plumber didn't have two left hands made of solid lead who
think if snug is good tight as hell is better and what do I need with the
f-ing included washers / fittings when the spare shit I got in the bottom
of my toolbox will do just fine.
Ya ever wonder why the expensive fixtures weigh 10 lbs. and have very
course threads? It ain't 'cuz it needs it for years of freaking use. It's
heavy handed installers that think wrenching equals greatness and who
can't screw any thread finer than a -12 without stripping the hell out of
it. Nice. You have no, absolutely no idea, of the innovation that would be
possible if you and the members of your industry could adapt to change.
I've seen this going on for 22 years now and the amount of change that
your kind has stifled could fill volumes of binders.
It is unbelievable how many innovative fixture designs are tossed out the
fucking window due to the "knowledgeable and experienced plumbers" (read
that as closed minded and old school assholes who bad mouth anything
that's different from what they've been installing for 30 years). I've
seen a design in which installation of a kitchen faucet was cut 84%. And
what did the plumbers who did the installs have to say? "Fuck this, my
cost per fixture would be almost nothin'". F-you.
Do you ever read your own posts after your hangovers have passed? Whhaaaa
the other subs. Whaaa everyone but my industry. There's nothing I've ever
done incorrectly and there's no new idea worth a shit. Only I have the
answer and if I had my way all would be perfect. Whatever, you tired old
bastards.

Folks, the above is what happens when you drink and type.......

Bob Wheatley

Mark Monson

2005-09-30 14:09:41 UTC

AldoNova wrote:
Engineer.

You

Post by AldoNova
have no, absolutely no idea, of the innovation that would be possible if you
and the members of your industry could adapt to change.

Give us some examples of your improved fixture ideas.

MM

Ned Flanders

2005-09-30 15:01:04 UTC

you have just summed up what is wrong with your company.

You assume that it is us who don't understand.

You use the example of the connection that uses a washer that should not
be "over-tightened".
I have gotten some nice waterworks tub valves that used this style
connection and was not happy. I DO NOT want to burry a connection like that
in a wall. Just how tight is too tight anyway??? Do I need to go get myself
a torque basin wrench? Oh look they didn't actually tell me in the
directions how many ft pounds to put on this fitting, in fact they make
little or no mention of how tight to make them. I have had enough experience
to know how tight is too tight but it is very subjective and not easily
explained without ft pounds. This connection is now made by a piece of
rubber or fiber which we have all seen dry / wear out, it is not a good
connection if there is going to be any movement in the pipes; which we in
the real world know happens. Lucky for me they had also threaded the inside
of the supply with NPT so I could adapt the good old fashion way, the way
that ALWAYS WORKS HAS ALWAYS WORKED AND NEEDS NOT BE FIXED.

Am I stupid for asking for the ft pounds that I should apply?
Are you an asshole for calling us stupid when you don't give us this info?

What is so wrong with a threaded connection that a guy can crank down on and
be sure it will not leak? I can train any jughead how to crank down on
something, but more importantly that connection will not leak ever. You
want to make the shit out of 100% plastic and have all hand tight
connections and quick connect clamps and all that shit. Well fine then
don't make it sooo fucking hard to get the parts to do this. Your company
(here comes the part you are ignorant of) changes this shit constantly and
never stocks or distributes the shit properly. There used to be 1
connection made under the sink for a sprayer hose, I could have 1 in my van
and be all set.

REAL EXAMPLE: Customer of ours has a fancy faucet with a normal sprayer hose
but a screwy quick connector. We remove it every fall when we winterize.
There is a little plastic clip that holds it in place. This spring the clip
was lost. I figure no major deal, I have like 10 days before the customer
is due to arrive. Long story short, the supply house and the actual
manufacturer was not able to supply the clip in time to give them a kitchen
sink. I went over there the night before and "rigged" it with a plastic zip
tie and crossed my fingers. I still have not seen this part after a
supervisor at the manufacturer promised it would arrive within a week.

What is more stupid??

Me misplacing the little plastic clip (I swear someone else lost it, I
would have left everything right there)
or
You for making a faucet that can't be fixed

I think the point I am trying to make here you imp is that it is in fact you
who can not adapt to change.

Post by AldoNova
Engineer.
You

Post by AldoNova
have no, absolutely no idea, of the innovation that would be possible if
you and the members of your industry could adapt to change.

Give us some examples of your improved fixture ideas.
MM

Blackbeard

2005-10-06 19:15:27 UTC

Open your can of whoopass on any man here you fucking pisher. While
you're spending your life hunched over you autocad, these goofy
bastards here are hauling 500-lb tubs and yanking 350-lb water heaters
(cause we're too fucking impatient to drain them all the way, so we
just heave the damn things). I haven't met a plumber yet who can't
easily sling around 300-lbs. with ease. So open your whoopass chief.
Give us your best shot.

and for the record, if you fucking pussy-ass pencil-neck engineers
would get out in the field and crawl around with us and see the trades
up close and personal, you'd quickly realize that many of the new
"great ideas" out there ain't so fucking great after all. I've seen a
few really good ideas. But somehow, I doubt you were responsible for
any of them.

So come'on...you little bitch. Me and you, nose to nose. I'll see you
at Monson's house and stomp that engineering degree right out of your
pompous ass. Bring a couple of friends to help ya out. I'd at least
like a challenge.

Red Jacket

2005-10-07 15:13:54 UTC

It took YOU 22 years to learn WE control the industry ?
You ain't no MIT grad are ya ?
LMAO !

Post by AldoNova
My God would I love to take the time to open a can a whoop-ass on you
babies. But your ears grew shut so long ago it would merely be a long rant
with myself. (just as most of your posts are).
I have so much freaking data / field notes about what types of f-ups
plumbers do to fixtures during install... but of course none of you have
ever fucked up on the job. It's everyone else that screws it all up.
btw, not sales. Engineer. And you can't imagine how much less a fixture
would cost if a plumber didn't have two left hands made of solid lead who
think if snug is good tight as hell is better and what do I need with the
f-ing included washers / fittings when the spare shit I got in the bottom of
my toolbox will do just fine.
Ya ever wonder why the expensive fixtures weigh 10 lbs. and have very course
threads? It ain't 'cuz it needs it for years of freaking use. It's heavy
handed installers that think wrenching equals greatness and who can't screw
any thread finer than a -12 without stripping the hell out of it. Nice. You
have no, absolutely no idea, of the innovation that would be possible if you
and the members of your industry could adapt to change. I've seen this going
on for 22 years now and the amount of change that your kind has stifled
could fill volumes of binders.
It is unbelievable how many innovative fixture designs are tossed out the
fucking window due to the "knowledgeable and experienced plumbers" (read
that as closed minded and old school assholes who bad mouth anything that's
different from what they've been installing for 30 years). I've seen a
design in which installation of a kitchen faucet was cut 84%. And what did
the plumbers who did the installs have to say? "Fuck this, my cost per
fixture would be almost nothin'". F-you.
Do you ever read your own posts after your hangovers have passed? Whhaaaa
the other subs. Whaaa everyone but my industry. There's nothing I've ever
done incorrectly and there's no new idea worth a shit. Only I have the
answer and if I had my way all would be perfect. Whatever, you tired old
bastards.

Post by PipeDown
Waddaya want, he sounds like a sales guy whose main customers are
contractors. Of course he's bias and ready to defend his bread and butter.

Post by AldoNova
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them.

wow this asshole is one to thank for horrible design from an installers
point of view, why?; because he dosen't know a fucking thing about
plumbing or the trades. who do you work for moron? i should call them up
and tell them they need to hire me to do your job the right way. I could
do much better than you I am sure thanks to my real life expirence.
thats right fantasy life fuck the contractor, fuck cement, and most of
all fuck the scumbag sheetrocker.

Post by AldoNova
Whaaaa, whhaaaaa, somebody call a whaambulance.
My god, dude. I'm guessing your 10 years past the time you should have
left the biz.
I "Hate" the contractor? Wow, you hate the person that gets you work.
Umm, here's a suggestion. Work for the ones that don't screw you. And,
if they all screw you, target your market elsewhere.
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them. But you, you just slay me with
your un-happy assed poison. Give it up & retire. Watch TV and make money
as you mentioned earlier.
Un-freaking real.
Brian

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

Electric

Post by AldoNova

Post by PipeDown

Post by AldoNova

Post by Blackbeard

Post by Mark Monson
water heater is material only. Most everything is septic tank with both
individual wells and utility water. Normal piping distance septic
and supply is counted as a fixture each. We use PEX (not manifold) and
foam core PVC.
I know this sounds dirt cheap but there are guys charging a good bit
less. They rely on come-and-go helpers earning 8 bucks an hour.
MM

Eric Miller

2005-11-14 04:12:53 UTC

Now who needs that "waaabulance"?

Post by PipeDown
Waddaya want, he sounds like a sales guy whose main customers are
contractors. Of course he's bias and ready to defend his bread and butter.

Post by AldoNova
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them.

wow this asshole is one to thank for horrible design from an installers
point of view, why?; because he dosen't know a fucking thing about
plumbing or the trades. who do you work for moron? i should call them up
and tell them they need to hire me to do your job the right way. I
could do much better than you I am sure thanks to my real life
expirence.
thats right fantasy life fuck the contractor, fuck cement, and most of
all fuck the scumbag sheetrocker.

Post by AldoNova
Whaaaa, whhaaaaa, somebody call a whaambulance.
My god, dude. I'm guessing your 10 years past the time you should have
left the biz.
I "Hate" the contractor? Wow, you hate the person that gets you work.
Umm, here's a suggestion. Work for the ones that don't screw you. And,
if they all screw you, target your market elsewhere.
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them. But you, you just slay me
with your un-happy assed poison. Give it up & retire. Watch TV and make
money as you mentioned earlier.
Un-freaking real.
Brian

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

The southern Appalachians region is one of the lowest paying in the US
for all the construction trades.
Typically, jobs are bid at $350 per fixture NOT including the fixture.
We throw in a couple frost proof cocks and the ice maker box.
Electric
water heater is material only. Most everything is septic tank with both
individual wells and utility water. Normal piping distance septic
and supply is counted as a fixture each. We use PEX (not manifold) and
foam core PVC.
I know this sounds dirt cheap but there are guys charging a good bit
less. They rely on come-and-go helpers earning 8 bucks an hour.
MM

Blackbeard

2005-09-16 02:20:20 UTC

And fuck the painter who sprays your copper stub outs.

And fuck the mexicans who use your pipes as stepping stools and break
them off inside the walls.

And fuck the tile guys who slop their garbage into your tub and shower
traps.

And fuck all the other guys who dump their sodas into your sinks
before the drainage is connected underneath.

And fuck the masons who park their scaffolding right in front of the
crawlspace doors and don't watch where they're tossing their brick
fragments.

And fuck the homeowner who shows up with *specialty* valves after the
valves have already been installed...and then bitch that you're going
to charge them MORE because you have to do the job twice.

And fuck the HVAC guys who cut your pipes to make room for their
ductwork and don't tell you anything about it.

And fuck the contractors who save money by framing floor joists with
6" lumber leaving you no room to work.

And fuck the contractors wife, kids and little dog too...no reason.
Just fuck them too.

And, of course, fuck the manufacturers who don't bother to understand
what we need in the field because they've never been out here
themselves doing this work.

And that's only a small start. If I missed anyone..then fuck them too.

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:13:23 GMT, "Ned Flanders"

Post by AldoNova
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them.

wow this asshole is one to thank for horrible design from an installers
point of view, why?; because he dosen't know a fucking thing about plumbing
or the trades. who do you work for moron? i should call them up and tell
them they need to hire me to do your job the right way. I could do much
better than you I am sure thanks to my real life expirence.
thats right fantasy life fuck the contractor, fuck cement, and most of all
fuck the scumbag sheetrocker.

Post by AldoNova
Whaaaa, whhaaaaa, somebody call a whaambulance.
My god, dude. I'm guessing your 10 years past the time you should have
left the biz.
I "Hate" the contractor? Wow, you hate the person that gets you work. Umm,
here's a suggestion. Work for the ones that don't screw you. And, if they
all screw you, target your market elsewhere.
I've been making plumbing fixtures for years. That's why I'm here. To
listen to people that install & use them. But you, you just slay me with
your un-happy assed poison. Give it up & retire. Watch TV and make money
as you mentioned earlier.
Un-freaking real.
Brian

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

The southern Appalachians region is one of the lowest paying in the US
for all the construction trades.
Typically, jobs are bid at $350 per fixture NOT including the fixture.
We throw in a couple frost proof cocks and the ice maker box. Electric
water heater is material only. Most everything is septic tank with both
individual wells and utility water. Normal piping distance septic
and supply is counted as a fixture each. We use PEX (not manifold) and
foam core PVC.
I know this sounds dirt cheap but there are guys charging a good bit
less. They rely on come-and-go helpers earning 8 bucks an hour.
MM

Blackbeard

2005-09-06 17:13:00 UTC

That's good money compared to pay-scale in our area. In our area, a
good apprentice will make $8.00 - $12.00 per hour. Journeymen plumbers
are typically earning $16-$18 per hour. There are a few shops that pay
a little more. But the industry standard in my area sucks.

In my area, the contractors have gotten way out of control. They work
against you the whole time. They don't pay at all or they'll drag
paying their subs out for several months. The contractors in my area
really jerk their subs all over the place. Most of them just sorta go
with the flow.

I've seen quite a few of my friends get out of the business entirely.
The profitability in the plumbing trades in my area are reaching a
point of critical mass. The trend towards per-fixture pricing is
sliding towards the range of $425 per fixture. There are a few guys
out there doing new residential construction for $385/fixture (if you
can believe that!!)

Personally, I shifted my focus on commercial work becaue it still pays
pretty well. But slowly the commercial side of the construction trades
is following that same path. I think I'm about ready to toss in the
towel too. I'm not interested in working for chump change. I can stay
home and watch TV and make the same money.

So based on supply and demand, what do you figure plumbers in the
Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama areas are going to be earning? Surely
you've seen all the Katrina damage. There is going to be a lot of
demand....but your supply of qualified plumbers is going to fall way
short of addressing the need. I've been trying to crunch numbers. The
best I can figure is that plumbers in that region, during the rebuild
phase, can expect $1500-$2000 per fixture. It may be higher than that
as material prices increase by 150% or more. But I don't have a lot of
data from which to extrapolate those numbers. Do you have any
best-guess on what is going to happen in that region? They'll have to
pay out enough to attract out-of-state plumbers to that area. I'm
going to leave that good-will effort up to you guys and keep my
fingers crossed that all of you get rich. I'm staying home and I'll
watch you guys work in the HOT and humid southern sun on CNN. Go on
Bob...go get that money!!

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:43:22 -0500, "Bob Wheatley"

No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but
they only use "L" copper and PVC.

Bob Wheatley

2005-09-07 00:43:10 UTC

Post by Blackbeard
That's good money compared to pay-scale in our area. In our area, a
good apprentice will make $8.00 - $12.00 per hour. Journeymen plumbers
are typically earning $16-$18 per hour. There are a few shops that pay
a little more. But the industry standard in my area sucks.

My dad was a plumber. I was introduced into this business at a very early
age. I not only feel your pain....I live it.
It's the same everywhere. I remember back in the 80's that we could not get
helpers started into our business because of the imbalance between working
conditions and what we could pay and what they could get driving a truck or
a forklift.
For god's sake it takes less time to become a doctor than a good plumber.

Post by Blackbeard
In my area, the contractors have gotten way out of control. They work
against you the whole time. They don't pay at all or they'll drag
paying their subs out for several months. The contractors in my area
really jerk their subs all over the place. Most of them just sorta go
with the flow.

It's the same here. Every dickhead you work for wants the work done
yesterday, for half price, and they'll pay you next year.:>)

Post by Blackbeard
I've seen quite a few of my friends get out of the business entirely.
The profitability in the plumbing trades in my area are reaching a
point of critical mass. The trend towards per-fixture pricing is
sliding towards the range of $425 per fixture. There are a few guys
out there doing new residential construction for $385/fixture (if you
can believe that!!)

That's another problem in our business. We don't share information as well
as we should and we end up cannibalizing each other. I can't name all the
idiots over the years that start their own business out of the back of a
pickup truck, low-ball numbers to get their foot in the door, and end up
going out of business a couple of years later. While that does get rid of
them, there is a never ending line of wannabe's to take their place.
We all take a test to get our plumbing license. There is no such test for us
to be businessmen.

Post by Blackbeard
Personally, I shifted my focus on commercial work becaue it still pays
pretty well. But slowly the commercial side of the construction trades
is following that same path. I think I'm about ready to toss in the
towel too. I'm not interested in working for chump change. I can stay
home and watch TV and make the same money.

Yes. That's why I do very little housing.
All you can do at this point is to increase your skills beyond your
competitors so you can price accordingly.
Information sharing such as this is also something that we as plumbers
should do more often.

Post by Blackbeard
So based on supply and demand, what do you figure plumbers in the
Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama areas are going to be earning?>

Insurance companies have great experience in knowing what they can get away
with. Don't expect them to pay double or triple what the value actually is.

Post by Blackbeard
Surely
you've seen all the Katrina damage. There is going to be a lot of
demand....but your supply of qualified plumbers is going to fall way
short of addressing the need. I've been trying to crunch numbers. The
best I can figure is that plumbers in that region, during the rebuild
phase, can expect $1500-$2000 per fixture. It may be higher than that
as material prices increase by 150% or more. But I don't have a lot of
data from which to extrapolate those numbers. Do you have any
best-guess on what is going to happen in that region?>

My best guess is that there may be as high as a 35% premium available.
But that's probably going to be about it.

Post by Blackbeard
They'll have to
pay out enough to attract out-of-state plumbers to that area. I'm
going to leave that good-will effort up to you guys and keep my
fingers crossed that all of you get rich. I'm staying home and I'll
watch you guys work in the HOT and humid southern sun on CNN. Go on
Bob...go get that money!!

Not me. I'm just North of Houston and my plate is full.
Hell, I just met late today about a hospital rehab they want to convert to a
facility for the evacuees. That tragedy is exploding into my own area.

Bob Wheatley

PipeDown

2005-09-16 00:15:59 UTC

"I charge extra for fiberglass tubs ($300)
I charge extra for cast iron tubs ($300)"

I understand why you might charge extra for cast iron (or porcelain on steel
for that matter) cause it is really heavy and might need extra support and
probably needs an extra guy to move it but why extra for fiberglass. Is it
because it always ends up getting scratched and requires touch up or because
some of them are huge and shaped oddly?

Just wondering.

Geezus....Did you have to ask so NICELY? :>)
First of all, I don't do tract houses, and don't touch PEX, and I don't
touch foamcore. That said however, I do a few custom homes every now and
then. I am in Texas so the illegals do most of the houses and all the
tract houses. But here's a breakdown for a typical house I would do and
the minimum specifications. If I touch it the piping has to be type "M"
copper (minimum) and schedule 40 PVC wastes and vents. We only use lead
stubs and lead flashings. Period. The stainless braided flexible supplies,
Master WC - 1
Lavatories - 2 (4550)
Garden tub - 1 (by others)
Shower - 1 (by others)
Guest #1 WC - 1
Lavatory - 1 (4550)
Tub & shower - 1 (steel)
Powder WC - 1
Ped lavatory - 1 (4550) +$200
Kitchen sink - 1 +$400 (Americast W/Delta waterfall) <or equal>
50 Gallon gas water heater - 1
Washer - 1
Exterior utilities (up to 60' waste & water) = $ 800
Downdraft = + $ 200
Adds (+'s) & extra's = $ 1,600
Gas system = $ 875
Project Total = $ 8,975
I charge extra for fiberglass tubs ($300)
I charge extra for cast iron tubs ($300)
Of course I charge extra for fixtures that exceed the price of the quoted
fixtures on a "list to list" basis. Utilities that exceed the quote are $
12 per foot for sanitary up to 6' in depth and $6 per foot for water
service.
No taps or tap fees.
I may have overlooked something in my hurried response to your so
"politely" asked question. If you have any more, ask away.
Just try not to hurt my sensitive feelings.....:>)
Bob Wheatley

Ned Flanders

2005-09-16 01:17:58 UTC

i installed a cast iron tub today, second story. we used pvc pipe to roll it
across the floor and 4 carpenters to help lift it up the stairs. it was a
heavy whirlpool one ugh!

Post by PipeDown
"I charge extra for fiberglass tubs ($300)
I charge extra for cast iron tubs ($300)"
I understand why you might charge extra for cast iron (or porcelain on
steel for that matter) cause it is really heavy and might need extra
support and probably needs an extra guy to move it but why extra for
fiberglass. Is it because it always ends up getting scratched and
requires touch up or because some of them are huge and shaped oddly?
Just wondering.

Geezus....Did you have to ask so NICELY? :>)
First of all, I don't do tract houses, and don't touch PEX, and I don't
touch foamcore. That said however, I do a few custom homes every now and
then. I am in Texas so the illegals do most of the houses and all the
tract houses. But here's a breakdown for a typical house I would do and
the minimum specifications. If I touch it the piping has to be type "M"
copper (minimum) and schedule 40 PVC wastes and vents. We only use lead
stubs and lead flashings. Period. The stainless braided flexible
Master WC - 1
Lavatories - 2 (4550)
Garden tub - 1 (by others)
Shower - 1 (by others)
Guest #1 WC - 1
Lavatory - 1 (4550)
Tub & shower - 1 (steel)
Powder WC - 1
Ped lavatory - 1 (4550) +$200
Kitchen sink - 1 +$400 (Americast W/Delta waterfall) <or equal>
50 Gallon gas water heater - 1
Washer - 1
Exterior utilities (up to 60' waste & water) = $ 800
Downdraft = + $ 200
Adds (+'s) & extra's = $ 1,600
Gas system = $ 875
Project Total = $ 8,975
I charge extra for fiberglass tubs ($300)
I charge extra for cast iron tubs ($300)
Of course I charge extra for fixtures that exceed the price of the quoted
fixtures on a "list to list" basis. Utilities that exceed the quote are $
12 per foot for sanitary up to 6' in depth and $6 per foot for water
service.
No taps or tap fees.
I may have overlooked something in my hurried response to your so
"politely" asked question. If you have any more, ask away.
Just try not to hurt my sensitive feelings.....:>)
Bob Wheatley

Blackbeard

2005-09-16 02:11:46 UTC

Just a suggestion that has worked well for me. On those second story
jobs you can coordinate with them when they set the trusses. If you
plan ahead with the contractor (and they don't always work with
you...in fact the fuckers tend to work against you). But if you work
with the contractor, you can get them to use their crane to lift your
cast iron tubs.

And yeah, like you I've had to heave my fair share of those
mutherfuckers to second, third and even fourth story locations. Sucks
A LOT. But I've gotten lazy and pissed off by the whole damn thing
over the years. I've gotten to where I do my cut-outs and have my
contractors set the tubs and showers in place and set attic water
heaters in place wherever they want them to be. If you make enough
noise about it, they'll even slam in two studs spaced (out of your
damn way) and put in the backer board for the shower head and shower
valve. All ya gotta do it make sure they know what you want and a good
contractor will do it.

I've even gotten to where I lay my sewer line first. I have the guy
digging the footings use a transit and I'll do a groundwork even if
there's a crawlspace. Just pull your risers like you would for
concrete...get it inspected and bury that shit. You'll be surprised
how much time it saves ya.

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 01:17:58 GMT, "Ned Flanders"

Post by Ned Flanders
i installed a cast iron tub today, second story. we used pvc pipe to roll it
across the floor and 4 carpenters to help lift it up the stairs. it was a
heavy whirlpool one ugh!

Geezus....Did you have to ask so NICELY? :>)
First of all, I don't do tract houses, and don't touch PEX, and I don't
touch foamcore. That said however, I do a few custom homes every now and
then. I am in Texas so the illegals do most of the houses and all the
tract houses. But here's a breakdown for a typical house I would do and
the minimum specifications. If I touch it the piping has to be type "M"
copper (minimum) and schedule 40 PVC wastes and vents. We only use lead
stubs and lead flashings. Period. The stainless braided flexible
Master WC - 1
Lavatories - 2 (4550)
Garden tub - 1 (by others)
Shower - 1 (by others)
Guest #1 WC - 1
Lavatory - 1 (4550)
Tub & shower - 1 (steel)
Powder WC - 1
Ped lavatory - 1 (4550) +$200
Kitchen sink - 1 +$400 (Americast W/Delta waterfall) <or equal>
50 Gallon gas water heater - 1
Washer - 1
Exterior utilities (up to 60' waste & water) = $ 800
Downdraft = + $ 200
Adds (+'s) & extra's = $ 1,600
Gas system = $ 875
Project Total = $ 8,975
I charge extra for fiberglass tubs ($300)
I charge extra for cast iron tubs ($300)
Of course I charge extra for fixtures that exceed the price of the quoted
fixtures on a "list to list" basis. Utilities that exceed the quote are $
12 per foot for sanitary up to 6' in depth and $6 per foot for water
service.
No taps or tap fees.
I may have overlooked something in my hurried response to your so
"politely" asked question. If you have any more, ask away.
Just try not to hurt my sensitive feelings.....:>)
Bob Wheatley

Bob Wheatley

2005-09-16 01:39:29 UTC

Because enameled steel is the baseline and ......
#1 steel tub = $80 +/-
Fiberglass tub = $225 +/-
#2 A steel tub can be set in about half the time of a fiberglass by the
time you knock studs out and get the fiberglass T&S level.
Besides, the tight assed contractor or homeowner who requests a fiberglass
is saving $1000-$2000 in tub surround that they won't need with a
fiberglass. Not to mention the sheer pain in the ass of hauling fiberglass
one-piece units.

Bob Wheatley

john

2016-01-20 01:44:02 UTC

Feel the same have been building for 30 plus years

New construction priced by fixture Above good
outline
Problem some houses easier than others

I now live in rural area moved from DC. Cost seem
to high here

On average the charge is 750 per fixture with
break down in 1/3.
250 labor
250 material
250 fixture allowance

Usually ice maker and two hose ibis thrown in
every thing else is fixture. Water Heater included
in fixture cost not larger than 50 gallon
Rennai between 1700 to 2500 extra

So a quick break down of 14 fixture is material
minus fixtures 3500
Labor 3500

I have installed whole house should be able to do
in 2 days rough 1day fixtures add extra day and
cost per hour 109 per hour
This is usually time it takes for one man

I suppose I our area for legitimate plumber that
is reasonable after govt cost business cost
probably nets 40 to 50 an hour

None of our one man plumbers are getting rich at
these cost

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#plumber1

2016-08-24 16:14:01 UTC

replying to Blackbeard, #plumber1 wrote:
Yes quit being a hole and prob get more help

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for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/plumbing/price-per-fixture-5817-.htm

im2oldBob

2018-04-05 21:44:03 UTC

replying to Blackbeard, im2oldBob wrote:
I have been a licensed plumber since 1969. I started in New Hampshire in 1964.
In 1969 plumbers were using at that time, $400.00 per fixture, in the
configuration you outlined. In 1984 I moved to Tallahassee and was a Florida
State Certified Contractor. The price per fixture there? $400..00 per
fixture. In 2007 I moved to Clyde, NC,( where I built a house meaning I built
the house when I say I this means with work accomplished with own hands). In a
plumbing code class, the instructor was overheard telling another student that
he got $400.00 per fixture! 40 years and the going price is $400.00 per
fixture? Look, the bookshelf behind me is full of texts books on pricing and
how to books. When I started in this trade (1964) there was only one text on
plumbing, The five Starbucks books, red, green brown, blue and yellow, Today
information is everywhere and the price per fixture is still $400.00 per
fixture! Do you see something wrong with this picture?

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for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/plumbing/price-per-fixture-5817-.htm

Jimmy the plumber 1

2018-09-13 21:14:03 UTC

replying to Blackbeard, Jimmy the plumber 1 wrote:
Blackbeard, I do big customhomes on the beach and im charging $2000 per ptrap
for ci and 1500 for abs.this price includes complete dwv and water.does not
include fixtures.roof and area drains 600 each, gas500 per appliance,450 per
hosebib, radiant heat $10 per sq.ft.not including boiler. I am one of the more
expensive plumbers but not the highest. I lost a contract to a new plumberthat
showed up last year and was 30% cheaper . He is gone allready..because of
traffic and density.material handleing is a challenge. Its very rare to park
on jobsite. I hope this info helps. I can realte to your frustration trying to
get info.

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for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/plumbing/price-per-fixture-5817-.htm

plumbsmart

2018-09-17 19:44:09 UTC

replying to Jimmy the plumber 1, plumbsmart wrote:
Jimmy, I can understand difficulties and the logistics of working on the
beach. However, you never indicated what beach? What state is my actual
question.

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for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/plumbing/price-per-fixture-5817-.htm

Sharky aka Rick Gorton

2019-06-29 14:14:01 UTC